Hi guys!

This letter is not an attempt to praise or criticize any religion or culture and to create a big discussion here in sajha .
I got some interesting verses from holy hindu books which I would like to share with you guys.
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HINDUISM TEACHES THAT WOMEN PRODUCE SEMEN

Hinduism claims that women are not only like whores by nature (ref. Manusmrti 9:14-18), but also amazingly produce semen according to the sacred dharmasastra:

"A male child is born when the semen of the man is greater (than that of the woman), and a female child when (the semen) of the woman is greater (than that of the man); if both are equal, a hermaphrodite is born, or a boy and a girl; and if (the semen) is weak or scanty, the opposite will occur." -- Manusmrti 3:49. ***

***The final instance would be a child with no sexual organs at all, or a miscarriage, or no conception at all.

Manu (Svayambhuva) was the first man in Hinduism, the progenitor of the human race. Manu hung-out with the gods, and his wisdom is regarded as inspired by God; hence, the holy Manusmrti, the timeless & sacred Hindu book of dharma. Manu was also the father of the first great sages according to Hinduism, and he is now considered as residing in heaven as a divine immortal.
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From Kiwiland Posted on 10-24-04 3:52 PM Reply | Notify Admin
hi guys


This letter is not an attempt to praise or criticize any religion or culture and to create a big discussion here in sajha .
I got some interesting verses from holy hindu books which I would like to share with you guys.

To From Kiwiland
refering to ur first post I found it amazingly astonishing but as u mentioned it wasnt there to praise or criticize any religion I thought that u r exercising ur personal freedom over this virtual world, but ur translations frm the pragraphs of certain books that u r refering to r baised by critcism and they not only imply to me but to whole hindu race, personally if u think that u r here neither to praise nor to critcize any religion or culture, my sincere advise to u would be, comparision n indepth knowledge is more admirable than just believing in one side of the coin n thinking all the rest are bullshits.

further to prove ur biasness I would like to draw ur attention on the following line;



''There is no evidence that the above method to avoid pregnancy works. So Hindus, do not try this at home thinking it is a good birth control method.'''

kiwiland, in my opinion relegion is not fact based, divine script, its a philosophy created by men when they felt lonely, in need of guidance..so not every script in religious text has to be correct..i am not being judgemental but a Hindusim helps you to open ur mind, think out ur thoughts, rahter than giving you a straight dimensions..many sophisticated minds have praised abt Hindusim, BHagvad Geeta, and Vedas, Einstein, Theorou and Emerson are only few..dont you think these ppl knew what they were talking talking abt??

good comes with bad, and our duty is to promote good and eliminate bad..religion's has many false guidance, and states many wrong things, and for this we have PHILOSOPHY..for this we have ABILITY TO REASON..

and ofcourse i agree with DWI, Do some reasearch..

here is a little good from Hindusim:

Sri bhagavan uvaca
kamyanam karmanam nayasam
sannyasam kavayo viduh
sarva karma phala tyagam
prahus tyagam vicaksanah...

translation : the supreme personality of godhead siad: the giving up of activites that are based on material desire is what great learned men call the renounced order of life(sanyasa) .. and giving up the results of all activites is what the wise call renunciation ( tyaga)...

kiwiland, you've jumped into the fire- and trying to justify or blame religion is only jumping from fire into the fying pan...it is a sensitive issue. And as you can see, there are always the orthodox religious groups on one end and the liberals on the other, hence the varying degrees of agreements/disagreements. Why dont you write an article in the Writer's Guild? See, it has two advantages: 1) People will read and try to understand what you say. 2). They cannot disagree with you ;) I mean, debating on issues of religion, abortion, gay rights, marriage, cloning, is all about individual perspectives; how your perspectives have been shaped as you grow up- its not just an ideology, its personal bias. So I look forward to seeing your article? or do you want me to write one for you ? kidding!

U guys cudn't get the real sense of the postings...
I am not bias... nor i am going against my religion.. nor trying to create a dispute here...
Bhattu ..ur general knowledge is pretty general..( sorry about that)
And for dipika.. its not my creation.. i got it from the english translation of these books.. so no point in posting it in the guild.
Take it for fun.. isn't the things written in our holy books ridiculous...
And one more thing.. i am not jumping into any conclusion about my religion reading few irrational things reading in these books...
It was just meant to make people know that few things written in these holy books are so ironic.
Cheers!

What's written in the holy books and how ppl interpret it is two different things. I'm pretty sure it wasnt writte in the quaran that husbands have the full authority to beat the shit out of their wives and rape them and all that bs. Its how a person interprets them and if they are capable of using them in the proper context...i find what was written offensive, and i should know better than to comment on this..but o well..

really i've never heard of the book by such title
i wanna read it too

so iof u wanna clear that out it would be great

Manusmriti is a book filled with bias and discriminations. Kiwiland, thank you for bringing those ridiculous "holy" writings to our notice. Obviously, the scriptures when re-written take on the prejudice of the writer. What is organized religion anyway: a medium of control, a passage to heaven, or a philosophy. I agree with icedmocha that religion is a matter of interpretation and individual practice.

Brahma - bhutah prasannatma
na socati na kanksati
samah sarvesu bhutesu
mad - bhaktim labhate param

translation..one who is thus transcendentally situated at once realized the Supreme Brhman and becomes fully joyful. He never laments or desires to have anything. He is equally disposed toward every living life. in that state he attains pure devotional service unto me..

source. Bhagavad Gita ..by swami prahupada..

by the way, there is God, who made us, and gave us the most expensive gift as well as very depth curse..that curse and gift both is ABILITY TO REASON...we reasoned and made religion, and when religion failed to connect with the reality of this world, then again we used our power to reason ..and then gave uprising to PHilosophy, a love for wisdom, and then came Descartes, Kant, Bruno, and Aristotle..

.this is how philosophy began, because religion failed...

To all those adharmi Muslims/Christians and others like From Kiwiland who like to denegrate Sanatana Dharma:
Arya Dharma (Hindu, Zoroastrian, Buddhist, Sikh) is the only source of good in the world. It was the original religion that was given to the Aryans by God when we lived in the Arya Vaej (Aryan homeland). However, over the centuries man-made concepts polluted the ancient truths. For example, our ancestors shunned idol worship and prayed to God through the sacred fire, agnihotri. But today we pray to statues as representative of God. Likewise, our ancient books, which were devoid of falsehood and contained absolute truth only, have been corrupted by later redacters. Bearing this in mind, it is futile to criticize our books for imperfections as we already know that falsehood has crept into our religion.

The Manu Samriti originally was faultless but later writers inserted senseless laws. Likewise, the Veda was given by God, Parameshvar, to Mitra in the Aryan homeland as a law ensuring perfection of divine truth. However, in 2000BC Ved Vyasa translated the Veda into Samskrit and polluted its absolute truth with man-made errors. Thus, modern interpretations are part fact and partially fiction. Later books the Ramayana and Mahabharata are not divinely ordained but are itihash written by religious men. As such they are not perfect but interesting.

Pisces, regarding the different methods of Hindu devotion, this cannot be defined by individuals. The correct worship definition is found in the Veda & Manu Samrti.

Though Arya Dharma is erroneous it is superior to the immoral Arab religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam and Maoism) and futile man-made doctrines (Unarya Faiths, eg Shinto, Confucianism, African and Australian beliefs). The Hebew prophets were shameless monsters. Abrahamm was a cattle thief who who prostituted his wife, Jesus was a samalingi with 12 playmates (he instructed: "I will make you fishers of men") who promoted alcohol consumption. His mother Miriam was a prostitute who after sex with Roman centurion rescued her reputation by saying that her god named Jehovah had made her pregnant. The idiot Jews accepted that!!!The founder of Islam was the worst of men. Prophet Mohammed had a bakers dozen concubines and advocated the scourge of homosexuality.

The Arya Dharma prohibits these sins. Alcohol and sodomy is probited and abhored in the Aryan society. Comparatively Aryan beliefs are a much healthier source of wisdom.

aryashakti, to believe in one's religion as a true, good, better than the rest of the religions is a flaw in itself.

I don't think Kiwiland was trying to degrade Hinduism. He was simply questioning some things that existed in this religion or seemed to have existed. For me, not following a religion questioning it is better than following one without questioning.

bravo aryashakti
no one could have said it better jesus sure was a gay and allah was a pedophile
at least iundus agree krishna died of aids because he slept with so many women.
but no they wont

hindus

On the moral ground it is not good to throw assumption driven by prejudice for what we don;t know indepth. AryaShakti, is it obvious to say Chirstian and Muslim who are in billions in number are not worth to be considerate as human? Lets say I am neutral, if one muslim bug me with his judgement against Hindu, like you did for Muslim amd Christian should I believe him or not ? To me you seems like wannabe proceedor of HINDU ZIHAD..BTW, you were right HINDU prohibite tamasik consumption, prostitution and so on, but also Krodh and Ahankar - which are the bases for your unethical advocacy and contradict juxtapose of Hinduism with other religions.

Pearl Jam :- Which hindu you are talkin about who believe Krishna died of Aids ? Do you have any solid ground to prove it ? Dude, it is easy to make thing out of unknown. It just a matter of intense animosity and hostility, you can derive anything out of nothing.

typo read as

contradict juxtapose of Hinduism.... = contradictorily juxtopose Hiduism....

Hi AryaSakti,
Intersting! Of course your posting revails that you are quite biased, but who knows you may be right. I have some questions for you.

1. You said "manusmiriti was origionally faultless but latter writers inserted senseless laws", what is faultless manusmirti?

2. You said,
<< Likewise, the Veda was given by God, Parameshvar, to Mitra in the Aryan homeland as a law ensuring perfection of divine truth. However, in 2000BC Ved Vyasa translated the Veda into Samskrit and polluted its absolute truth with man-made errors. Thus, modern interpretations are part fact and partially fiction. Later books the Ramayana and Mahabharata are not divinely ordained but are itihash written by religious men. As such they are not perfect but interesting.
>>

-If Veda was translated by Vyansa in Sanskrit in 4000 years ago, who wrote the Mahabharat?

- If Veda is in polluted form what is its pure form?
- If Mahabharat is a real history, Itihas can you say the range of time when it was taken place?

- The language of Ramayan and Mahabharat clearly shows that they were written after Panini, do you want to say that Krishna is younger than Buddha? Because Panini is 2/3 century after the Buddha.

-If you say the war took place much before than it was written, remember the writer was Byans himself who had witnessed the war.
-Ok, if you want to say the war took place much earlier but transmitted through Sruti and was written somewhere around 2nd century BC, when the war dated?
-If you say it was dated before Veda, ie 40000 years ago, why Vedas didn't mention it?
-If you say the war took place in between Vedic Period and Buddha, why Buddhist scriputres don't mention anything about Krishna and incarnation sytem, where as Buddhist literatures tell a lot about Veda and Vedic way of life?

-Fine, for some reason if that part was taken away from Buddhist literature, what do you want to say, a Yug last just few centuries? Rememember, Ram was in Dwapara Yug, Krishna is in Treta and Buddha is in Kali. I am just talking about Krishna and Buddha, if I include Rama too, that will be great mess up.

-Mesopotamia civilization and egyptian civilization were considered world's first civiliations which is considered 2000 to 3000 BC. Harappan civilization of Indus vally was after these two civilization. Our ancistors from central Europe, invaded Harappan which is considered. around 1500 BC. If you believe in modern science and anthropology, when do you want to say Vedas were revailed by god to Our fore fathers, Aryans? And when did Ram ruled in North India, Ayaudhhya? Don't forget, Aryan migrated from Indus valley to North India, which must be much after 1500 BC.

-Ram was considered to be in Dwapara Yuga, having very long life and he died, when another Yuga about to pass, he took another Avatar, Krishan. How long these Yuga's are? If you ask to Jyotish, they will tell you millions of millions of years. Please enlighten me.

-Then after that Treta Yug, in Kali, Ram took Buddha Avtar, please tell me what was the time gap between Ram and Buddha, form Dwapara to Kali?

I know, out of blind faith almost every single person advocate their religion. A typical muslim from middle east think his religion is the most superior and other religions are inferior, same is true for Christians, Hindus and Buddhist. Whom should I believe?

Moreover, you said Aryan religions are superior, I will buy your words only if you, a follower of Arya Dharma, proove that you are superior than any other individual of other religions. What good qualities you have over Christians or Muslims? I myself have no religion, but I have born and grown up in Aryan Dharma, I don't see any special qualities in me.

If you say, I don't have special qualities because I don't follow Arya Dharma, I agree. You will be equally qualitative if you follow other religions too. Religion is way of life, it teaches people to be good. Some people understand it and follow it, but some misunderstood it and define themselves. All the religion teaches good stuff.

As you mentioned Islam. Unfortunately, we don't have good imgage of it because of the extremists. But it used to be peaceful religion. "Salam Wale Kum" means may you be peaceful. "Wale Kum a Salam" means, may you be peaceful too. Mahommad, founder of Islam was teaching peace (Islam= Peace) among the wild tribes in Makka. Those tribe leaders couldn't resist something against their tradition so they drove Mohammad with his followers. Mohammad went to Madina and started to teach Islam form there. As Makkian knew that his teaching was florishing, they attacked him twice and killed his many followers both the time. Mohammad didn't repail. In third attack, it is said that he asked Allah for self protection, Allah denied, but Mohammad asked to Allah, if he were killed who would deliver the message to the world, then it is said, Allaha orgered him to resist the attack. Mohammad with his few followers fought from the ground for self protection with big army of hourse rided Makkians. They said this as "Jihad". Then after Muslim rulers took this as an example and killed many innocents by the name of Jihad. Of course there seems always valid reason for all the wars, they define Jihad on their own way.

All religions have impurities people misunderstoond and do mistakes. This doesn't mean that the founder was bad. We also have a lot of imperfaction in our religion. People of other religion see how the majority of people practice religion, they don't see what is the core of the religion. If some other religious people see Hindusm, they will see Dashain- sacrificing innocent animals, Tihar- playing cards, drinking, eating gambling. Different rites and rituals which don't have any scientific meaning. Gujrat riot, Kathmandu riot, Ayoudhya riot. But our fore fathers had discovered great secret of Nature, they have reached to the complete purification of mind ie Nirvana. Who cares, everybody cares how we are living now. Same is true for all other religions too.

It is human nature, we always want to say everything associated with us is superior because it makes us superior. By impure nature human we human being are ego centered, and always make effort to porve us superior.

It is true there are some differences in different religions but denominator of all major religions is to have purity of mind. To have, love, kindness, equality, morality, all good qualities.

Arya Sakti, I value you, so I don't participate in unhealthy discusssion, please write only if you have something solid that you want to share, I will be grateful. May be this will be my last posting in this thread.

Vishontar

Ladies and Gentleman

Every religion says their Book is given to then by god. If you carefully study different Books of different religion they have flaws in them.
Jews Book torah explains so many things nicely but it also says that it took Jews 40 yrs to reach Israel from Egypt which is about say 500 km.

We all know that there are many flaws in Christian Bible, same is true with Tripitka and Koran. As Hinduism has more Books compared to others it also has more flaws. Some ppl found easy way out to this just by saying wel, it was overwritten by many other ppl or it was translated by so so and introduced so many things which were not in original writing. But my question to them have you seen the original writing? What are the evidences that the original writing were later on corrupted by some ppl, friends they are just excuses.

Now, if all religious Books were given by almighty God why there are so many flaws? If every creation is because of Gods wish then why blame other religion? They were also created by Gods wish and God wanted them to be like that, so blame the God.

If really other ppl corrupted the original Books then again blame the God because he did not create enough measures to safeguard its teachings. By carefully and logically analyzing the facts available about God and different religion it seems that there is no relation between God and religion.

All the religions were started when the Human civilisation was not mature. Muslim, 1500 yrs ago, you can imagine the status of the human society at that time. Christian, 2000 yrs ago, what type of society/civilisations was there at that time?? Buddhism 2800 yrs ago what was the level of intelligence at that time in terms of science?? What was the life expectancy of ppl (don?t assume that if Buddha lived for 80 yrs, which also I am not so sure, every one lived that long). Hinduism, they expect started somewhere between 5000 to 7000 yrs ago, now what was the means of communication/transport among ppl at that time??? How was the medical science/astrology/Jurisprudence etc etc???

Different evidences available to us at this time indicate that society was more chaotic at different time when religion began. No rules, and even if there were rules they were not sufficient enough to manage the society. How to manage the society? There were empires but no efficient means of communication to hold the empire and authority. So everything was undergoing construction and destruction phase in comparatively rapid pace. (If you carefully read history of different civilisation (Egyptian/Roman/Inca/Chinese/Hindu).

It seems to me that religious Books are written by the Great (?) thinkers of their time they wanted society to follow certain rule so it can be manageable and can become prosperous? So they write Book, in those Books they tried to teach how one human should behave with other human? How to develop a society that is prosperous, sustainable, and develops, what are the rules to be followed (this is like present day interpersonal skills/human resources management). They were very clever they wrote the Book in the form of story so that ppl will read it with interest. But, who will punish you if you don?t follow the rules they have devised? Or what happens when you don?t follow their writings? They cleverly introduced reward and punishment system. If you follow the rule, you are good (who don?t want to be good?), you will have a place in heaven where you don?t have to worry about anything ( ppl at that time were suffering from diseases, fear of wild animals, fear of poor harvest, hooligans, weather etc etc) and there are angels in heaven, and Apsaras (they were indirectly saying to the ppl you can live with beautiful women without any worry).
But the writer of the Books were equally aware that society will question their authority so they say the Book is from God and he will punish you if you don?t follow the rule (here they introduced the fear from unknown, which worked very well).

So, this way so called Books (religious) got established in society. Ppl added new things erased other things in due course of time, some honestly some just to establish their authority. After generation?s ppl again got fade-up with old Book they revolt against old Books and write their own. This is how the new religion began. And they said if you follow others rule you are no good (I believe this is how hatred amongst different religion started.

So, ladies and gentleman in my opinion, those Books were not given by God but written by our ancestors. And, at that time those Books were required to direct the society forward. They have played great role in human development. For present society they contain both good things which are practicable and bad things which are harmful. It?s up to us what should we take from those Books. But let me tell you one thing for present day we have different Books, Our constitutions, laws, Human rights these are the present day religious Book. By now you may have understand that those Books played role of laws/constitutions at that time.
Now is there really a God?? Well I am not intelligent enough to answer that question. There may be. There may not be.

Allow me to quote some from Manusmriti about women.
"Where women are honored there the gods are pleased; but where they are not honored no sacred rite yields rewards," declares Manu Smriti (III.56) a text on social conduct.
"Women must be honored and adorned by their fathers, brothers, husbands and brothers-in-law, who desire their own welfare." (Manu Smriti III, 55)
"Where the female relations live in grief, the family soon wholly perishes; but that family where they are not unhappy ever prospers." (Manu Smriti III, 57).
"The houses, on which female relations, not being duly honored, pronounce a curse, perish completely as if destroyed by magic." (Manu Smriti III, 58)
"Hence men, who seek their own welfare, should always honor women on holidays and festivals with gifts of ornaments, clothes, and dainty food." (Manu Smriti III, 59)
"If a husband deserts his wife, she may marry another." (Manu, chapter IX, verse 77).

Religion Sucks!

Vishnotar ji, another great post!....and one thing i also have been saying here in sajha alot, and i appreciate you saying it too :)

"please write only if you have something solid that you want to share, I ( WE) will be grateful. "

Religion is a guidence, to achieve the personal satisfaction, one has to find truth, which canont be achieved by any religion, because religion was written by man, not by god...

Newton said, god started the clock and left it ticking, thats exactly how the world works, no where in the world good always wins, nor Bad is always punished. Religion was also created to comfort one's heart..there is no actual truth in any religion, for that we need to think, discover and Reason..