aryashakti, I read the website but do not find neccesssary details. If you know of histories of this please post.


thugged_out. Very good. But it is not complete. Name of Dadal also from BaNGLADESH. maybe Purbeei Brahmin of origin Dadal Dhura at Nepal. Please confirm.

Reply to comment made by Aryashakti:

Hey now, stop bashing Aryashakti. He's making a point thats all. I totally agree with what he said, lets face it, there is no such thing as "Newar Brahmin". Brahmins are of indian origin. Newars are not of Indian origin, they are of mongloid origin. There are 49 established gotras in hinduism from the 4 castes, Brahmins are the direct descendants of seven or eight sages who are believed to be the mind-born sons of Brahma. They are Gautama, Bharadvaja, Vishvamitra, Jamadagni, Vasishtha, Kashyapa and Atri. To this list, Agastya is also sometimes added. These eight sages are called gotrakarins from whom all the 49 gotras (especially of the Brahmins) have evolved. SO TELL ME where does a Newar Brahmin fit?? Hindu Newars call themselves brahmins because they want to fit into the promenant hindu Indo-Aryan Nepalese. I beleive since there are Newar Preists, the word brahmin is used just to implicate the "preistly caste". In that case it can be used, but there is no way a Newar can really be a Hindu Brahmin. If a certain newar claims himself as a Hindu Brahmin, then i'd ask WHAT IS YOUR GOTRA?

Well, Newari brahmins supposedly came from India also. For example, Joshi(the only Newari brahmin surname I know) can be either your run-of-the-mill brahmin or Newari brahmin. Of course, the difference is that the Joshi Newars came to Nepal earlier. I doub that they have kept their gotra system.
If somebody else could verify.
As for the surname Dadal, I have never heard it before. We got Dahal and Dhakal, but I've never heard of Dadal.

How can you say Newars are from India? Newari is a Sino-Tibetan language and its root is from there. And as for the name joshi, original joshis are brahmins, mostly from maharastra region in India. Any one can take a last name, but it doesnt mean their roots are from there. For instance, Joshi is a hindu brahman name from the root word in sanskrit joytsi, an astraloger. A newar could easily take up that last name as a family name. Also another example, slaves from africa were taken to america and were given typical white names like, smith, brown, windsor, does that mean those specific african american originated from England? Also another point, newars are either hindus or buddhist. If they are hindus, they are obviously going to take up a hindu name.

not being racist or anything, just proving a point here. Here's another easy way of putting this. Nepalese people who have round eyes and look more liek from the indian subcontinent, are of indian origin, where as nepalese who have chinese features, like small eyes and flat noses are of mongloid decent.

Peace

First of all, everybody knows the origin of black Americans. As for Newars, their origin is shrouded in mystery. To use your logic, just because black Americans speak English as their native tongue, we cannot jump to conclusions and say that they're Anglo-Saxons. So, I would not rely solely on language to conclude that Newars are of Tibetan origin. Newars are just a group of people that comprise both the Tibetan and Indian peoples. Newari is not purely Sino-Tibetan; in fact it is mixed with Indian dialects. Those Hindu Newars were not converted to Hinduism. They were Hindus for generations.
How exactly are you going to explain why some Newars look no different from brahmins and chettris? Newar Brahmins settled in Nepal earlier. Those that came later on did not accept them as brahmin.

Here's a excerpt from historic source: NEWARS - The Newars are of Mongolian origin and are the dominant ethnic group of the Kathmandu Valley and surrounding central areas of Nepal. Despite their geographical origins, the majority are now Shaivite Hindus following received Hindu customs, although communities of Newari Buddhists do remain. They represent perhaps the greatest synchronism of the Tibetan and Indian traditions of any Nepal's ethnic groups and also incorporate aspects of aninism.

TADA

There is no mystery of where Newars came from. Newars are of mongloid decent. If you still think that newars are from India, then please tell me where in India do they have people that look chinese? Ofcourse besides darjeeling and sikkim and other himalayan areas. (Which was later annexed to british India) The origin of Hindus are from the Indus Valley, saraswat valley and present day pakistan, and later due to drout of saraswati river, they shifted to the east and south and to uttar pardesh. And as for the explanation of your comment: "How exactly are you going to explain why some Newars look no different from brahmins and chettris? Newar Brahmins settled in Nepal earlier. Those that came later on did not accept them as brahmin."
It's simple, its called FUSION. Obviously years back a newari might have married a brahmin or an indian looking chetri. But it is obvious that Newars are from mongloid decent, and it can be seen in their appearance and is in their gene. Newari is of mostly sino-tibeatian origin. That means they are from mongloid decent (SUPRISE) and obcourse, it does have some sanskrit route, but that does not mean that they are from Indian Oirign. It means when their culture came in mix with hindu culture, they borrowed sanskrit in. This can be seen in another way. For example, buddhisim in the oreintal (china, japan, cambodia etc). It is known people of Japan speak Japanese. But when they read buddhist scripture, it is in Sanskrit. Also is translated in Japanese, but the words and its roots are sanskrit, like "aum mani padmi haum" thats sanskrit. They dont' pray in japanese they pray in sanskrit. Same with Islam. Indonesians, who are predominatly muslims, when it comes to reading the qu'ran, they read it in Arabic. And all indonesians are of mongloid decent not semetic decent. AND PLEASE DONT TELL ME THAT INDONESIANS CAME FROM ARABIA, THAT THEY ONCE HOPPED ON A BOAT AND CAME TO THE ISLAND. Because Hindus also came to Indonesia to spread their culture to the mongloid nomads. Then came the islamic missionaries that convereted them into Islam.So anyways, so you can see why newari has sanskrit roots, because obvioulsy nepal is situated in an area where on the north is mongloid race, and south is the so called "Aryan" race. I am not denying that Newars are one of the original people of the area now called Nepal. Before people from the Indian origin migrated, there were only nomads of mongloid decent. ANOTHER FACT. if you even look at the archetecture in the kathmandu valley, the temples and darbars-+
are of OREINTAL design, like the ones found in china, japan and korea. And when you look at indian archetecture, it is nothing close to that of the Newars. SO PLEASE, I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR YOUR EXPLANATION. Because it is true in all aspects and human migration that if a certain group of people migrate from one place to another, they take their customs along including the way they design their settelement along with them. SO if the Newars did migrate from India and setteled in Nepal, how come we dont' see any of their 'previous" indian customs like ARCHETECTURE. There is no archetetcture design like the one in the Kathmandu valley that you see in India. SO this also proves that Newaris are of Mongloid decent. They migrated from the north bringing in their mongloid language and Archeteture etc. THat is why the Kathmandu valley archetecture looks similar to the ones you see in China and Japan and the far east. THE END. I REST MY CASE. and please don't try to bring in any other excuses.

Sources please. If you wanna cite "historic sources", please tell me where you got your tripe from. As I said, there are some Newars who came from India.

The origins of the Newars are shrouded in mystery. Levi has proposed that the Newars may have migrated to the Valley from the region north of the Himalaya .[6] F?rer-Haimendorf writes: ?there is every reason to believe that the bulk of the Newar people has been settled in the Nepal Valley since prehistoric times.?(1956:15) According to K.P.Malla ?[t]he aboriginal people of the Valley were possibly Austroasiatics who were later assimilated by the Mongoloid Kirats.?(1979:132) Among scholars there seems to be consensus that the Newars can be traced back to the ancient Kiratas,[7] who inhabited the valley two millennia ago. Not much is known about the Kiratas.[8] The Kiratas fought wars with the Indo-Aryan invaders and are mentioned in the Mahabharata. The Kiranti tribes, the Rai and the Limbu of East Nepal, are thought to be descendants of the Kiratas.[9] The Kiratas were followed by the Licchavis who founded a dynasty and left the earliest sources[10] thus far discovered, inscriptions from the fifth century A.D.[11] There is also agreement that the Newars and the valley have been repeatedly invaded by other people from the surrounding hill country and the Gangetic plains. The invaders were attracted to the valley by its rich alluvial soils, its urban riches, and the chances for spoils.[12] Some of the invaders founded new dynasties; most prominent of these were the Malla dynasties,[13] which are thought to have come in the l2th century from Tirhut in Bihar.These early immigrants tended to become newarized: they assumed cultural patterns from the Newars and adopted their language, making it their own. After some generations such immigrants or invaders would be more or less indistinguishable from the original inhabitants. However, some (e.g., the Jha caste) also retained many social and cultural traits of their own, a process which has been facilitated by the caste system.[14] This is certainly an important part of the explanation for the great variety among castes and localities that one encounters in Newari culture.
http://w1.185.telia.com/~u18515267/CHAPTERII.htm

Also, please read this:
"During the second half of the 17th century, most probably under the rule of King Srinivasa Malla (1661-1684) one branch of the Rajopadhya, the Newar Brahmans to the court, established this agache or esoteric shrine house. This esoteric shrine building stands adjacent to 13th century Ratnesvara resthouse. Part of the agache structure was demolished in 1996. In: The Sulima Strut. East meets West in the Restoration of a Nepalese Pagoda . Eds.: Niels Gutschow, Erich Theophile. Forthcoming, 2001 Weatherhill Publishers, p. 107"



Most Indians don't consider Nepali bahuns to be pure either. Many of those bihari brahmins look no different from australoids. So please stop your yammering.

Ok here it is:

a]lthough Newari is a Tibeto-Burman language by stock, its literary dialects are deeply influenced by the Indo-Aryan [sic] dialects, models, and traditions. Just as Newar social and cultural systems are a product of a fusion of two streams, similarly classical Newari literature is a most tangible evidence of the symbiosis between a Tibeto-Burman language and the Indo-Aryan literate culture.(Malla l982:4) ITS FUSION, BUT THE ORIGIN OF NEWARIS ARE KIRATIS:
"The earliest recorded history of Nepal goes back over 2,800 years when a tribe of Mongolian people?the Kiratis?arrived in the Himalayan territory, across the Tibetan plateau."

Of the Mongoloid origin, the Newars have probably been settled in Kathmandu Valley for over 2000 years. They have absorbed many Indian characteristics, including Hinduism. Numbering about 12,00,000 are concentrated in the Valley and fewer are scattered countrywide. Their language is Newari which although it is commonly placed in the Tibeto-Burmese family, was influenced also by Indo European languages.
-http://www.catreks.com.np/kingdom.htm


HERES ANOTHER SOURCE

1. Introduction :
Newars are the indigenous people of Nepal. Newars belong to the Kirati family of Mongolian stock. In course of time, the people of other clan, caste, community merged into the Newar stock. The ancient and original religion of Newars is Mahayana or Vajrayana Buddhism. This religion was introduced in the Nepal Valley (the Kathmandu Valley in ancient times) by Bodhisattva Mahamanjushri at the time when the valley, then a lake, was made inhabited by draining out the water of the lake. Shantikaracharya constructed Swayambhu Jyotirupa with a view to perpetuating this religion for a long time in an organised manner. He also constructed Guhya Agamchhen (tantric altars) at Panchapur and Shantipur following a tantric ritual to establish the area as the centre of Vajrayana.
-- Madansen Vajracharya
http://www.lrcnepal.org/papers/cbhnm-ppr-12.htm


Oh and I wanted to talk about the fact where newars like you say that are from India. Well If I asked you which part of India, you would be dumbstruck and would go into google and try to find out. There are some newars say that they are from South India, and are related to the Nayars. Well the NAIRS are KERALITES, and heres an excerpt of where the NAYARS came from:

Obviously, like all Keralite tribes, the Nairs came from outside. There is a great deal of truth in the theory that they came from the Nepal Valley, adjacent to Tibet. Some consider them to be early descendants of the Newars of Nepal. The Kathakali which is a Nair art-form is closely related to Tibetan dances; Nair polyandry is very similar to Tibetan marriage customs; in the mode of inheritance the Newars are like the Nairs; like the Newars, the Nairs are distinguished by their lighter coloring, Mongolian features, and smooth hair. The most remarkable thing about the Nairs is their style of pagoda-like temple architecture and house construction which are almost identical with the Newar style of temples and houses found all along the Kulu and Nepal Valleys. Serpent worship is another common custom between the Newars and Nairs. As mentioned earlier, the settlers of Kerala came from the northwestern parts of India and the Nepal Valley. My theory is that groups of Newars who were partially Aryanized and would be later Dravidianized joined the Munda exodus and finally settled down in Kerala after a long period of sojourn in the eastern plains of Tamil Nadu. It is the Newar-Nair builders who have given Kerala both the pagoda-type architectural style of the Hindu temples and the angular roof and dormer of Kerala houses.
The Kerala Story:
by Dr. Zacharias Thundy, Northern Michigan University


And about your comment about Indians who don't consider nepali bahuns pure. Well I'm a nepali brahmin who knows my ancestry inside out and I can tell you where exactly my ancestors came, which village they were settled and what exact gotra I'm from. And ofcourse, I'm not the so called "nepali brahmin" that has mongloid features. And I'm married to a Indian Brahmin that has the same Kul Devta, same gotra and same origin as mine. Don't speculate about what Indian Brahmins think of Nepali Brahmins, because you aren't one to even know. What you think of brahmins in nepal are of mongloid decent. And if an indian brahmin don't consider nepali brahmins pure, because that specific nepali brahmin looks chinkie, obviously that they aren't pure, and I wouldn't even. Because "supposedly" you should be knowing since you claim ur self to be a newari brahmin, that when a brahmin marries someone that is not from his caste, he is no longer a brahmin, that he falls to his/her spouse's caste.
And you mentioning about bihari brahmins who look no different from australoids. Australoids a.k.a aborigenes are of african decent. Most biharis came from bengal. Also do to the climate in the terai reason they are dark. But color of skin and physical features are big different. Biharis, even dark have the so called indo aryan feature, long nose, big eyes long bushy brows, where as newaris have mongloid feature, flat face, small eyes, flat nose. Even Keralits don't look mongloid.

Ok here it is:

a]lthough Newari is a Tibeto-Burman language by stock, its literary dialects are deeply influenced by the Indo-Aryan [sic] dialects, models, and traditions. Just as Newar social and cultural systems are a product of a fusion of two streams, similarly classical Newari literature is a most tangible evidence of the symbiosis between a Tibeto-Burman language and the Indo-Aryan literate culture.(Malla l982:4) ITS FUSION, BUT THE ORIGIN OF NEWARIS ARE KIRATIS:
"The earliest recorded history of Nepal goes back over 2,800 years when a tribe of Mongolian people?the Kiratis?arrived in the Himalayan territory, across the Tibetan plateau."

Of the Mongoloid origin, the Newars have probably been settled in Kathmandu Valley for over 2000 years. They have absorbed many Indian characteristics, including Hinduism. Numbering about 12,00,000 are concentrated in the Valley and fewer are scattered countrywide. Their language is Newari which although it is commonly placed in the Tibeto-Burmese family, was influenced also by Indo European languages.
-http://www.catreks.com.np/kingdom.htm


HERES ANOTHER SOURCE

1. Introduction :
Newars are the indigenous people of Nepal. Newars belong to the Kirati family of Mongolian stock. In course of time, the people of other clan, caste, community merged into the Newar stock. The ancient and original religion of Newars is Mahayana or Vajrayana Buddhism. This religion was introduced in the Nepal Valley (the Kathmandu Valley in ancient times) by Bodhisattva Mahamanjushri at the time when the valley, then a lake, was made inhabited by draining out the water of the lake. Shantikaracharya constructed Swayambhu Jyotirupa with a view to perpetuating this religion for a long time in an organised manner. He also constructed Guhya Agamchhen (tantric altars) at Panchapur and Shantipur following a tantric ritual to establish the area as the centre of Vajrayana.
-- Madansen Vajracharya
http://www.lrcnepal.org/papers/cbhnm-ppr-12.htm


Oh and I wanted to talk about the fact where newars like you say that are from India. Well If I asked you which part of India, you would be dumbstruck and would go into google and try to find out. There are some newars say that they are from South India, and are related to the Nayars. Well the NAIRS are KERALITES, and heres an excerpt of where the NAYARS came from:

Obviously, like all Keralite tribes, the Nairs came from outside. There is a great deal of truth in the theory that they came from the Nepal Valley, adjacent to Tibet. Some consider them to be early descendants of the Newars of Nepal. The Kathakali which is a Nair art-form is closely related to Tibetan dances; Nair polyandry is very similar to Tibetan marriage customs; in the mode of inheritance the Newars are like the Nairs; like the Newars, the Nairs are distinguished by their lighter coloring, Mongolian features, and smooth hair. The most remarkable thing about the Nairs is their style of pagoda-like temple architecture and house construction which are almost identical with the Newar style of temples and houses found all along the Kulu and Nepal Valleys. Serpent worship is another common custom between the Newars and Nairs. As mentioned earlier, the settlers of Kerala came from the northwestern parts of India and the Nepal Valley. My theory is that groups of Newars who were partially Aryanized and would be later Dravidianized joined the Munda exodus and finally settled down in Kerala after a long period of sojourn in the eastern plains of Tamil Nadu. It is the Newar-Nair builders who have given Kerala both the pagoda-type architectural style of the Hindu temples and the angular roof and dormer of Kerala houses.
The Kerala Story:
by Dr. Zacharias Thundy, Northern Michigan University


And about your comment about Indians who don't consider nepali bahuns pure. Well I'm a nepali brahmin who knows my ancestry inside out and I can tell you where exactly my ancestors came, which village they were settled and what exact gotra I'm from. And ofcourse, I'm not the so called "nepali brahmin" that has mongloid features. And I'm married to a Indian Brahmin that has the same Kul Devta, same gotra and same origin as mine. Don't speculate about what Indian Brahmins think of Nepali Brahmins, because you aren't one to even know. What you think of brahmins in nepal are of mongloid decent. And if an indian brahmin don't consider nepali brahmins pure, because that specific nepali brahmin looks chinkie, obviously that they aren't pure, and I wouldn't even. Because "supposedly" you should be knowing since you claim ur self to be a newari brahmin, that when a brahmin marries someone that is not from his caste, he is no longer a brahmin, that he falls to his/her spouse's caste.
And you mentioning about bihari brahmins who look no different from australoids. Australoids a.k.a aborigenes are of african decent. Most biharis came from bengal. Also do to the climate in the terai reason they are dark. But color of skin and physical features are big different. Biharis, even dark have the so called indo aryan feature, long nose, big eyes long bushy brows, where as newaris have mongloid feature, flat face, small eyes, flat nose. Even Keralits don't look mongloid.

Ok what about the magar priest of Mankamana. AAlam devi than and there are some devi sthans where magar are still priest. What is that? cam u enlighten us about it?

I don't know where in this form we are talking about magars. Go enlighten your self with that. I'll tell you of a mantra. its called GOOGLE

well i am not discrediting ur knowldge. just asking you maybe u know it
thats all
no need to pinch, chill our dear

No i'm cool. S'all good. whats up? hehe looks like every little thread I'm in, you're comments are also there lol.

The passages you quoted are still in complete agreement with my quotes. It doesn't show any fallacies in my argument. Furthermore, I have to take issue on the theory that the Nayars are of Newari origin.

"In each of the three central kingdoms the Nayar caste was divided into a number of ranked subdivisions characterized by different political functions. Chief of these were (a) the royal lineage, (b) the lineages of chiefs of districts, (c) the lineages of Nayar village headmen and (d) several sub-castes of commoner Nayars. Each of these last either served one of the categories (a) to (c) or else served patrilineal landlord families of Nambudiri Brahmans. I shall deal first with the commoner Nayars of category (d).
There were present in each village some four to seven exogamous matrilineages of a single sub-caste of commoner Nayars. These owed allegiance to the family of the head of the village,which might be a patrilineal Nambudiri family, a Nayar village headman's matrilineage, a branch of the lineage of the chief of the district, or a branch of the royal lineage. The commoners held land on a hereditary feudal-type tenure from the headman's lineage and, in turn, had authority over the village's lower castes of cultivators, artisans, and agricultural serfs. Each retainer lineage tended to comprise some four to eight property-owning units which I call
property-groups."
http://orion.oac.uci.edu/~dbell/Gough.pdf

There is a loophole in the theory you posted, and I can drive a truck through it. What's astounding is that of all places close to Nepal(like Bihar or UP), Newars decided to migrate to Kerala??? This is another tin-foil hat theory, if you ask me.

There is not an iota of possibility that one can proclaim without a shadow of a doubt that one is "pure", whatever that means. Just think about this example. Suppose my great-grandmother cohabited with a bahun-looking Newar, chances are that the progeny is going to be bahun-looking too, and my great-grandfather wouldn't even have a clue. This type of mixing up must have occured in the past. With all that hormones raging, teens(and most people got married in their teens and hell preteens) will try to experiment. This leads to the result I described. The gotra system of course cannot be used to trace one's ancestry. What are you going to conclude from it, that one of your ancestors was Kashyap??

Australoids are of course not Africans. Australoids have distinct features, like straight hair, that differentiate them from Africans. The Siddhis of India on the other hand are of Ethiopian origin, brought to India by Arabs as slaves. India does not have pure Australoids, but the "taint" can be seen in the phenotypes of many South Indians and North-East Indians. North-Western Indians have been spared of the australoids. They look relatively "caucasoid".
As for purity in India, it is just a myth. Read this:
"To explore the impact of West Eurasians on contemporary Indian caste populations, we compared mtDNA (400 bp of hypervariable region 1 and 14 restriction site polymorphisms) and Y-chromosome (20 biallelic polymorphisms and 5 short tandem repeats) variation in ~265 males from eight castes of different rank to ~750 Africans, Asians, Europeans, and other Indians. For maternally inherited mtDNA, each caste is most similar to Asians. However, 20%-30% of Indian mtDNA haplotypes belong to West Eurasian haplogroups, and the frequency of these haplotypes is proportional to caste rank, the highest frequency of West Eurasian haplotypes being found in the upper castes."

http://www.genome.org/cgi/content/abstract/11/6/994?view=abstract

Well the whole theory about the nayars being of newar origin is actually written by a newar so it makes sense how they came up with the idea. ANd i don't believe keralites were newari coz its just absurd. In my distant faimly I have a relative that is married to a nayar brahmin, and looking at them whole relatives, none of them look chinese looking. IN onclusion i would just liek to say that, Newars are skeptical about everything, like where they are from. So obviously if you dont even know where ur from, your gonna make stupid theories and make up places you would come from. Like some say there are from rajesthan, because there is a place in rajesthan called MEWAR. WHOOOPIIEE just coz theers a place that is similar to the name doez that mean they are from there. For instance, there is a place called DHARAN in Saudi Arabia, and there is also another place called DHARAN in nepal, does that mean saudis came and established dharan in nepal???


Listen no matter how much you justify that newar brahmins are of indian origin, I would say, by just looking at them having chinkie features and their language being of SINO TIBETIAN, I would just flip my middle finger and say "YEAH THIS IS BRAHMIN TOO". Like i said earlier, brahmin is a preistly caste, so in sanskrit if you are a ethnic group from a preistly "caste" then the sanskrit root "BRAHMIN" can be implied, but you can not be a Hindu Brahmin of indian origin. First of all like you said before, newari brahmins don't keep their gotra? I've never really heard that in brahmin tradition, to prove that you are brahmin, you need your gotra. I mean look at any hindu marriage, the preist needs to know your gotra. And there are like 8 rishis the gotra follows from, and i know defentatly not one of them where chinkies.

Peace

I'm not a Newar brahmin. I'm a Pahari(Upadhyay) brahmin. Looks like you're quite soft on Indian brahmins because of your supposed marriage to an Indian brahmin. Brahmins from one location don't accept brahmins from another location for purposes of marriage. For example a Keralaite brahmin will more than likely not marry a Tamil Brahmin. There are regional differences. But what's sad is that you don't even know that you're not supposed to marry someone who belongs to your own Gotra. This is what you said earlier:
"And I'm married to a Indian Brahmin that has the same Kul Devta, same gotra and same origin as mine"

Same gotra? You basically abused what gotra stands for by marrying someone of the same gotra.

I find your analogy of Mewar/Newar to be quite hilarious. Nair also sounds like Newar if you ask me.
Newari brahmins, even though do not have their own gotra, do go through their bratabanda ritual. Nobody has imposed this on them. They had it even before other ethnicites arrived in Nepal.

Also, stop insulting "chinkies". Do something about your own soot-black face first.

Yeah well everyone knows that keralites don't like tamilians, infact no one in andhra pradesh likes tamilians, espically a telegu. It has nothing to do with caste, but just politics. And no im not soft because I'm married to a indian brahmin. if indias hate nepalese then it has to do with how they are portrayed, cleaning indian shit and being coolies in nepal. It's not because they are higher brahmin than another brahmin. I am an upadhay brahmin as well and i don't beleive in anything like a and upadhay brahmin being higher than jaisi brahmins or whatever. That law only holds in Nepal and was made by the Ranas. In india there is no such thing as first class brahmin and second class brahmin. You can marry someone in your gotras because for brahmins there are like 7-8 rishis that brahmin fall from and they take their name as a gotra. And there are millions of brahmins so obviously your gotra is gonna collide. It's which rishi's ligneage you follow.

Haha, bartavan is done by chettris too. and I don't have a black face. I have a light tone color with green eyes.

being coolies in India i mean

The reason why I brought the bratabanda thing was because bratabanda is specific among some groups only. Gurungs and Magars don't have to undergo bratabanda. It's specific to high castes.

OH ABOUT THE PRONOUNCIATION OF NAIR AND NEWAR. Nayar is pronounced NAIE YURR. ANd the root is NAYAK=leader.