who watched or listened to the debates last night?

I did and I say Kerry all the way.

Facts:
Kerry said- $200 billion spent on Iraq- actually $120 billion so far, he projected $80 billion more to be spent in coming days.

Bush said-10 million voters registered to vote in Afganisthan- actually most of the people who registered have done it more than 1 times and most of them won't ever vote because of threats from the warlords. 100 thousands Iraqis trained so far-the actual number is not that high.

I did. Thought Bush looked a bit aggressive, Kerry was sweating all over. But yes Kerry all the wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!

By narrow margins Bush came out better on believability, likeability and toughness.

Source: http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/09/30/debate.main/index.html

sorry ax, but i'm gonna have to disagree.

bedrock and meera- absolutely! bush is one of the scariest people in political history. and what an inarticulate imbecile! granted, he had to be under a lot of pressure, but he kept pausing....and hesitating.... and st-st-stuttering... and repeating himself. and repeating himself. and repeating himself.
kerry might not be an ideal candidate, but i admire him because he is a thinking man. he is willing to admit mistakes and change his mind about important issues. some people think that's a sign of weakness. i think it's a sign of maturity and critical and analytical thinking. bush has already proven he is incompetent. now, let's give kerry a chance!

I think Kerry stood his ground quite well. It looked like Bush was having a hard time sustaining his composure.

As many polls show, Kerry faired better at the debate last night. Hope he'll be able to build some momentum and carry it all the way to the finishline. I think, America needs change. The evangilical, know-it-all cowboy must now ride into the sunset and fade away.

Bush is a douche-bag. I hope even the dumb conservative section of the population (aka the ones driving those big trucks with the NRA and Bush/Cheney 04 stickers) here see that and he does not get 4 more years of global downfall. The battleground states will prove big during the elections because I am pretty sure Jeb Bush will make sure porky will win in Florida!

Just saw on CNN Headline news: according to CNN/Gallop poll, 53% thought Kerry did better overall, while only 37% favored Bush.

However, personally I think one could not have expected anything weighty in terms of substance out of either candidates from a carefully pre-scripted debate, other than their styles, approaches and their oratory skills. On this regard, I believe both camps can claim that their respective candidates performed well.

As for me, Bush seemed, as someone already pointed out earlier, rather irritated at times [which is negative], and seemed limited on offensive ideas. "Ghumdai firdai rumjaataar" bhanya jasto...sugaa le ratyaa jhain eutai kura rattya chha rattya chha. How many times did he quote [for the purpose of attacking] Kerry's phrase "wrong war, wrong place, wrong time"? Uffffffffff...yo lathyaapre laai aru bolna aundaina, bhanya? But I must give the guy credit for looking strong and resolute, which, however, dosen't mean that he is always right.

On the other hand, Kerry did well on constantly reminding the listeners of his strong differences with Bush on Iraq [without sounding like a sugaa] -- he adroitly explored variety of areas where he could go on the offensive. Nevertheless, I think he could have done much better on directly attacking some of the questionable "facts" that Bush introduced to support his stance. For instance, numerous numerical facts [like the once on Afghanistan that Bedrock has pointed out] were dubious at best, or outright false at worst. Kerry obviously failed to do his homework on these facts, otherwise he would have been in a better position to question them directly.

I must say I was bitterly disappointed at the whole debate itself, though. This was supposed to be a major debate on foreign policy, and I uderstand Iraq shares a huge pie on US foreign policy at the moment. But they should have at least touched on variety of other global issues that are important too, like the environment/global warming, AIDS, third world debt/aid, trade, relations with Latin America, human rights, etc. Jim Lehrer and the producers/organizers of an AMERICAN PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE could, and should, have done more to distinguish themselves from ordinary Americans, who have the image of being excessively self-centered and of having extremely narrow view of the world.

palpali gaule, I have to agree to disagree.

palplai gaule said "kerry might not be an ideal candidate, but i admire him because he is a thinking man. He is willing to admit mistakes and change his mind about important issues"
- in my dictionary, i call him Flip Flopper :)

*** palpali gaule, did we bump into each in Santa Monica, CA few months back? You were with your beautiful gurungseni fren ***


I have seen here again and again. When someone disagree(s) they are labeled dumb and what not. It's sad that I am going to see lots of these whiners in this forum for another 4 years after Mr. Bush reelects :S

I thought Kerry was much composed and strong yesterday. He was right on points about the target of war is "BIN LADEN" and not saddam. Bush was so nervous that he was replying uneasily and turning to something else. He was saying time to time...we want the peacful world...........who the heck does he think of himself to take care of world...! haha! The fact is wish he could rule the world! Polls showed that Kerry was winning by a bigger percentage last night! I like the foreign policy of kerry better. Annan points were great too. One funny thing about BUSH is that he doesn't think that the war was unjust even now...which proves him as a dumbest president!

But Kerry also agreed on preemptive war and agreed to keep soldiers in IRAQ if he gets elected....I was pretty sad for that....wish there were other candidates like NADAR or green party to have their opinion with a different viewpoint.

I have to disagree with u Ax, What makes u think that kerry changing his views makes him a Flip Flopper? Whold world word knows that the IRAQ war was unjust and wrong and thousands of Iraqis, more than a thousand soldiers were killed and still don't how many more to go. Was was the target of the war? Weapon of mass destruction or Saddam? This is a nonsense war therefore most of the countries protested against it! After all this BUSH doesn't admit that this is a wrong war even though he is wrong? Americans probably will forgive BUSH if he comes forward honestly to say "sorry, my bet, I made a wrong decision...." But in order not to be a flip flopper he sits there and says it was right war? What kind of president is he? If someone makes a mistake, I would like for him to say sorry not proudly say I am still right! If change is necessary to make something right then he/she should do that instead of calling somebody flip-flopper. I would prefer Kerry over BUSH no doubt!

At one instance, Bush said something like, "to lead the world we should not send mis-signals." What does he mean? Does he think he's the leader of the world?

And he also stated that the world was a safer place now that Saddam is in prison. Hey we have all these people of different nationality dying in Iraq, getting beheaded. How can he say the world is a safer place? He has fueled even more hatred in the muslim world.

But I just wish that Kery had more energy, and assertiveness, which Bush portrayed.

We know that Americans in general are not a smart bunch. They are not the type who are going to analyze what each candidate said and find thuth and lies in them. They want to be shaken up, they get things when it is repeated over and over again, and with energy, vigour, and assertiveneness.

"By narrow margins Bush came out better on believability, likeability and toughness.believability, likeability and toughness. "

AX bro,
are you just trying to pull our legs or the visual aid you have now needs some major upgrade?

Believability: Bush believes that we should always remain on the offensive. We should go out dismantling all the nuclear powers in the world, but its ok to develop ours for NATIONAL SECURITY.

Likeability: His grand coalision is made of Britain, australia and some other country. He's liked by everyone i am sure :). remember how he refutes Kerry "err. The senator forgot Poland was also part of the coalision" I meant to say Grand Coalision.

Toughness: if u ask me, he was wincing in pain the entire time, anytime his judgements and decisions were questioned. He evaded the issues by beating around his OWN BUSH.
Yah, he's tough though. All FUNDAMENTALISTS are. and we have one in white house.

Amen!
PS. North Korea cannot be treated bilaterally? haha! he should have jus admitted, the only other super power we're scared of is CHINA!

I thought Kerry was extremely consistent throughout the debate whereas Bush seemed to be aggressive and at times confused. The entire debate was revolving around the war on Iraq where Bush was accusing Kerry of changing positions frequently and Kerry blaming Bush for spreading war.

I might be wrong but I didn't find any solid evidence that one would be better than the other...both of them started by saying...OH I WOULD BE A BETTER PRESIDENT..AND THEN ...suddenly ..OHHH HE DINT DO THIS AND DO THAT..YADA YADA YADA...I wasn't impressed that much by the debate but what I was impressed was the fact that they stood there for 90 minutes straight drinking so glasses of water and yet didnýt have to visit the restroomý.manýthatýs crazy!!!

Anyway let us see what other debates hold for election. As some of the polls have suggested until now Bush has been leading in the most of the major pollsýso we will just have to wait and see..

thank you, sweetie pie. i agree with a lot of your points.
and ax, i don't call people that disagree with my "dumb." one-sided issues and a lack of dialogue make things boring. i appreciate your views, even if i don't believe in them. as for meeting in santa monica, i don't think it was me. because 1)i am actually not nepali, but an american (former peace corps volunteer) and 2)mero sundari gurungni saathi chhaina! but oddly enough, i was in santa monica a few months back with a beautiful gori keti and we did meet a few nepalis!
and hurray, as an american, i can't argue that "americans in general are not a smart bunch." but please remember that there are those of us who are!

What disturbs me the most is that Bush saying "Knowing what he knows now, he would still have gone to invade Iraq", now how can you have such a person as a President?

Secondly, I personally think US is not anymore safer than it was before 9/11. What Kerry said last night, Bin Laden has easier time recruiting so called Mujaheedin because of Iraq war is so true. How can you deny that?

Jim Lehrer - Mr. President, you have 30 seconds for rebuttal.

Bush - Thank you Jim. uh uh uh uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Jim Lehrer - Oops, your time's up, you stumbling, mumbling (add the line from Good Fellas).

I think President Bush rallied around his same old statement again and again, at times looking utterly confused. But Mr. Kerry came up with a whole different views and ideas on how to handle the Iraq crisis, which Bush labeled as the "Central Front" on terrorism. Its NOT the central front on terrorism. But, unfortunately he has made it the central front on recruiting terrorists. We have seen random kidnappings in a broad daylight, just yesterday 80 people were killed by a unnecessary US air raid. And still Bush is so damn confident that US is succeeding in the "war on terror". When will the American people realize that Bush's fallacy has taken America too far to the right and the allies completely dismantled? Even Mr. Tony Blair now has agreed the Iraq war was wrong. When will President Bush? He never will, and he will keep exerting his military power, because he doesnot know how to handle the domestic issues surrounding the fall of economy and record budget deficit.

Another four years of Bush is a mighty scary prospect. The war will move to Iran and then to the Korean peninsula. You cannot keep bombing innocent civilians to remove terrorists. I believe President Bush has generated more anti-american feelings around the world than anybody else and this means that he has exposed the lives of US Citizens who work throught out the globe.

US definitely needs a change in leadership.

right on! what i find ironic is that bush, as you pointed out, declares iraq "the central front" on terrorism. well, in my humble opinion, it is THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION that is the central front on terrorism!!!
ssny- thanks for the laugh. funny, and true.

[This is not directly related to yesterday's debate.]

After going through most of fine comments posted above, I feel like making a humble attempt to post some of my views and, in the process, look forward to learning something.

Many have opined on how he should not have gone to war in Irwq but few have talked about the limited choice Prez Bush faced at that time.

Let us recall some points first.

1. Sadam acting suspiciously ( denying access to many sites) for many years and even ater very stern resolution form the security council was passed
2. Intelligence from teh russians that Saddam was planning a terror attack against America (which was recently revealed)
3. The extra pressure for home security faced by the prez after 9/11

What would be expected from an american president at that time? Wait some more time and allow Saddam use his WMD against american interests? With the benefit of hindsight, now we now know that Iraq did not have WMD; but we did not know this at that time and Saddam was acting suspiciously. Even Kerry had lent support to attacking Iraq at that time.

Now comes the issue of gaining support from other allies. America was the supposed target of Saddam (not France and GErmany) and time was running fast. Some of you might think it is an extreme view but I would rather advocate condemning France and GErmany for reneging on their earlier commitments of meting out "severe consequences to Iraq" and not sending troops to Iraq even after the war. Well, thats my view!

I salute prez bush for having the guts to take a firm decision, with the level of information and threat america faced at that time, on attacking iraq. (Now pls dont ask where the WMd is). I sincerely believe that was the right decisoin to make at that time. Though I dont have the right to vote, like most of you here, I hope American people are smart enough to keep Mr Bush in power for 4 more years.

And as mentioned already, I expect to learn something here.

cheers