"Now a days the term Nepalese has a far wider significance, indeed almost a changed meaning, but when we speak of Nepalese civilization, we can only mean Newar civilization"

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Get a life....... newar civilization... People like create problems in NEPAL....

 

suck my momo muji

Chor its people like you who create problems not them. What the fug is your problem GADHA ?

If they want a website that is their business NOT YOURS GADHA !!!!

We still do not understand the meaning of ethnic diversity and usually relate  it to  seggregation.  think about it:
Here in US they have "Black History Month", "Asian American Awareness Month"; they do this in terms of promoting ethinc diversity of America, they don't relate it to seggregation and discrimination. They don't have a problem. But when some people of ethnic origin try to do something, i don't understand why do we have problems and always relate it to seggregation??? Think about it, we need to change our ways of perception.

bejace, 

Being a newar it is not a bad idea to open the website to provide information about newar caste, culture and civilization. However, you have to be sensetive when you state lines " when we speak of Nepalese civilization, we can only mean Newar civilization". It shows your knowledge about history and civilazation is pretty poor.

If we talk about nepalese civilization, we can go back to Kirat and beyond that. You might want to know and explore more on " INDUS VALLEY CIVILIZATION" and " VEDIC CIVILIZATION", that flourished in Indian Subcontinet, which includes India, Pakistan, Srilanka, Bangladhes and some part of Russia, China and Afganistan too. Newar - or Malla came to valley lonmg after  these civilization evolved in the region, during only 12th century. They may have done significatnt work in KTM valley. But at the same time, rest of nepal were also emerging. Malls influence outside the valley is not that significant that we should buy Newar Civilization is the Nepali civilization. Again, your statment provide strenght to those who likes to say " KTM newar does not know out side the valley-aka " KUWAKO BHAYGUTTO".  KTM IS NOT ONLY NEPAL!

My suggestion for you would be open up your eyes and try to rise above from " caste" mentality. Your type of statement will provoke the people outside your caste line unnecessarily.

Ha this just shows how Nepali people tend to have problems with everything. It's the monkey mentality. Khutta tanne mentality. Afu pani gardaina aruley gareko pani bigarcha or in this case sahadaina.

Whats you peoples problem if someone wants to share something ... why you always think negative ... thanks bejace for the information ...

Bathroom Coffee.... you have nothing to say but negative talk., you are the moron of SAJHA you know that right. You are not for anything or against anything you are a snitch. You are doublecrossing punk. You seem to have fun in Negativity.

Read the freaking lines and read again, what I said.

I am not pissed that he has a website, I am pissed he thinks Newars are the only one who sclupted Nepal. Bugger has no clue there are other people in nepal and they all live outside the Valley.

A freaking Frog thinks the pond he lives in is the whole world.

How about creating a site like Sajha instead of  Newar, sherpa, rai, tamang, tharu. It is good to have ethnic websites but to claim the civilization like that is wrong. Newars didn't even have any hand in uniting nepal during the 14th or the 15th century.

More power to my man who created that website, All I am saying is how about being Inclusive instead of being Exclusive. How about being a Nepali first than Newar, Bahun, rai, tamang later.

peace

Chor IF I want to open a Newari, Tamang, Manang, Bahun, or Madhesi site...ha ha ha ITS STILL NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.

Before you go around talking shit to others LOOK IN THE FUGGING MIRROR MORON.

Yeah I am a JERK FOR ASSHOLES LIKE YOU !!!! HA HA HA HA

 

It is my business u cok-sucker.. when some SOB like you claims that his caste is the only one that is Nepali and rest of us are nobody. that is when you get beat up by a gang of gorkhali's.

I bet you are 5 feet tall with skinny arms and legs is that why you are always angry all the time, cause you can't do no damage to anybody,  Is that why you come here to SAJHA everyday to talk big and get on everyone's nerve.

I know who you are kid, u need to tone down your language. It wasn't meant for all Newar's but that particular ashole who thinks newars are the only people who can be credited for Nepali Civilization

How about Gorkhali army from gorkha who didn't burn their lil valley to the ground but let them flourish and create. Civilization is not only resposible for creating but the one who saves and savours it get's credit too. 

 

Guys ,,,,common...dudes . its not a place to fight with each other. why guys are talking like dhotis and pak ???

Eagle5,

I agree that it may sound harsh if we say - "when we speak of Nepalese civilization, we can ONLY mean Newar civilization"; but I disagree with your opinion that we can relate our nepalese civilization to Indus valley and vedic civilization. If we want to include other major nepalese civilizations, we may add mithila civilization, karnali-civilization etc. in addition to Newar Civilization instead of trying to relate nepalese civilization with Indus valley and vedics that were never influencial in Nepal until Mallas entered. From your comment, it is clear that you have poor understanding on Newar civilization as you state Newar - or Malla came to valley lonmg after  these civilization evolved in the region, during only 12th century. This is totally wrong concept. Newars are the people who were in Valley since the history of KTM is known, be it ruled by Gopals or Mahishpals or Kirats. All rulers including Mallas were outsiders for Newar people, and those outsider rulers vanish into Newar community after certain period of ruling. Vedic or Indus civilization did neither evolved or flourished in Nepalese territory during or before 12th century.

Mallas can be credited to bring and aggressively promote some part of vedic civilization in Nepal. Mallas diffused themself in Newar Civilization after few generation of their entry. They trademarked some of the indigenous cultural assets in their name. For example, Prataap Malla initiated a jatra, and he became an icon behind the jatra, but if you analyze the whole details of the jatra, they are not invented or forumulated or founded by Pratap Malla. To understand this you need to understand how such festivals are celebrated. The way people play instruments like Mwayeli and Khin, the way they dress up and dance, the way they pray the god, the way of maintaining hierarchy and discipline, the way of making those rituals economically sustainable, the way of cooking foods for the festival, the way of construction and architecture etc. all are the unique assets of Newar Civilization that existed centuries before Pratap Malla announced the festival. Civilization is that whole package that was developed gradually in the course of 1000s years of history. Therefore you can not say they are brought in KTM or Nepal by Mallas.

The another important point is, if you are talking about current affairs or politics, you can say KTM IS NOT ONLY NEPAL! but if you talk about civilization you must say KTM WAS ONLY NEPAL! This is the historical fact and well appreciated by everybody. Such historical facts may be reflected in current affairs too. For example, we don't say Nepali Army Batallion for the nepalese people working in Indian Army or British Army or Brunei or wherever they exist, we say them Gurkha Army Batallion, Why? Because they inherited the pride of Gorkha, not Nepal. Similarly, when we talk about nepalese civilization, we do not talk about indus or vedic civilization but we talk about Newar Civilization. (Notice, I would kick out ONLY from what bejace wrote) So, it would be wise to have broad understanding on the civilization stuffs first before jumping over on someone with derrogatory words like KUWAKO BHYAGUTA or 'caste' mentality.

Chor,"when some SOB like you claims that his caste is the only one that is Nepali and rest of us are nobody."

YO MORON WHERE DID YOU HEAR ME SAY THAT ANYWHERE ? THIS MOTHAFUGGER IS DILLUSIONAL HA HA HA OR DID YOU JUST PULL THAT OUT OF YOUR LAME ASS ? HA HA HA

Chor,"that is when you get beat up by a gang of gorkhali's."

ha ha ha LISTEN TO THIS ANTIDELUVIAN MONKEY HA HA HA AND THAT WOULD SOLVE ALL OF NEPAL'S RACE PROBLEM RIGHT SHIT FOR BRAINS? BEATING UP PEOPLE WILL BRING US EVEN CLOSER TOGATHER RIGHT MR SIMPLETON ? HA HA HA KE BHANNEY YESTO KUBUDDHI BANDER LAI !!!

Chor," I bet you are 5 feet tall with skinny arms and legs is that why you are always angry all the time, cause you can't do no damage to anybody,  Is that why you come here to SAJHA everyday to talk big and get on everyone's nerve."

ha ha ha YEAH GO AHEAD CALL ME ALL THE NAMES YOU CAN THINK OF...HE HE ... IF IT MAKES YOU FEEL ANY GOOD OR BETTER HA HA HA.... GADHA BHEDA LAI ARU KEHI AUDAINA KE GARNEY. KHAALI BAA BAAA MATRAI GARNA AUCHA. HA HA HA

Chor,"I know who you are kid, u need to tone down your language. It wasn't meant for all Newar's but that particular ashole who thinks newars are the only people who can be credited for Nepali Civilization."

ha ha ha You know who I am rey ? ha ha ha Owwww I am soo scared now Owwww ha ha ha Hasaucha. IT WAS OR WAS NOT MEANT FOR NEWARS JACKASS MAKE UP YOUR FUGGING MIND. I AM NOT NEWAR BUT YES THEY ARE THE MOST CIVILIZED IN NEPAL, OTHERWISE YOUR PAAKHEY PRITHIBI NARAYAN WOULD NOT HAVE MAKE IT THE CAPITOL OF HIS KINGDOM. AND THAT IS PROBABLY WHY NEWARI IS REGISTERED AS THE NATIONAL LANGUAGE OF NEPAL IN UN.

Chor,"How about Gorkhali army from gorkha who didn't burn their lil valley to the ground but let them flourish and create. Civilization is not only resposible for creating but the one who saves and savours it get's credit too."

IS THAT WHY ALL OF THE INDIGENEOUS PEOPLE IN NEPAL FEEL OPPRESSED ? OR IS IT BECAUSE YOUR FUGGING GORKHEY'S LET THEM FLOURISH AND CREATE ? THAT IS PROBABLY WHY WE ARE AHVING MADHESI PROBLEM, PAHADI PROBLEM, LIMBUWAN PROBLEM. FUGGING MORON THINK BEFORE YOU RUN YOUR JHAADA LAGEKO MOUTH.... SHIT FOR BRAINS.  

Chana Tarkari!

Unlike you, i do not “create concept of civilization". I know what Khin, Dhimen, or you name it all the folk songs, prayers and rituals involve in Newar culture. But when you talk about civilization, you should every civilization has certain origin and impacts. It is process of evolution.  I do not if you have read any history books other than school history. Indus Valley Civilization, Mohenzodaro and Harappa, and Vedic Civilization are the origin of civilization of Indian Subcontinent. Agriculture, cattle grazing, property barricading already were there in Vedic Civilization.  Building and Planning culture, brick making techniques, advanced drainage technique are the key feature of Indus Valley and Mohenjodaro civilization. FYI, Lichhavi period was more sophisticated than Malla (known as golden period of Nepal civilization-unfold the pages of history book) and advanced in terms of civilization. Underground water spout ( which is based on Vastusaastra principle-origin Vedic Civilization) which you or many may think belongs to Malla period, are mostly belong to Lichhavi( thakuri) period. Buddhist chaitya, including many biharas and stupas also belong to the same period. I do not know if you ever heard of “Rajkulo” the roylal water canal, again it was the Lichhavi who constructed it to bring water from highland to low land.  Kailashkut of Ansu Verma, Narendradev's Palace were there before malla came. Malla however did good job continuing and marinating what they inherited. So do not think Malla did good job, they did good job in terms of building palaces for their own goods lets not forget this. So do not think, it was during mall period our civilization of the valley reached at its peak!

Going back to your point, whey Kathamdnu is called NEPA or Nepal, that is due to Ne-Rishi or Ne-Muni ( Buddhist newars argue Manjushree, hindu argu Krishna) who created or contributed in creation of valley.  Just because of that when we talk about Nepalese civilization it should only be valley?? That is your shallow analysis. Valley may have larger impact on Nepalese civilization, which every one can accept.Again for your wisdom, Lichhavi were all around the country- Farpring (then known as Falpring- pring “means settlement, Khopring-now Khopasi) and many more were already part of Nepalese ( lichhavi) civilization. SO do not try to say that “ newar are only part of ktm” with your shallow knowledge you can say that, but there were not only newars in the valley! Newars however got more opportunity in Malla period because of trade opportunities with Tibet.

Read the book- and if you have some reference share that to me! But do not talk here from the hats that you are not wearing!

You want source-“read these”- “Nepal Mandela”, “Brick and Bulls” “Buddhist Monastery of Nepal” and many more if you want…you will get scared I know coz these are pretty thick books! Are you interested???  

GUD LUCK!

 

Oh I didn't notice this statement first. "when we speak of Nepalese civilization, we can only mean Newar civilization"
Are you kiddin me? What civilization are you talking about? Nepal is one of the most uncivilized country in the world!

Rato bhaley , u got bulls eye. I think our statements ends all the wahiyat discussion by two set of people. Lets close this chapter now. Exactly nepal is uncivilized.

Eagle5

Now you are partly on track. Your second post is better than before as you have refrained yourself using derrogatory words unlike your previous post. However, I could not find a reasonable logic and consistency in your thoughts between these two different posts. You said, (1) Newar - or Malla came to valley lonmg after  these civilization evolved in the region, during only 12th century and in second post you said - (2) FYI, Lichhavi period was more sophisticated than Malla (known as golden period of Nepal civilization-unfold the pages of history book) and advanced in terms of civilization. You are well read of history books so that I do not need to remind you that Mallas were not typical icon of Newar when they entered Nepal. They were thakuris originally and then diffused into newar community later on. You know that the people in valley and its surrounding territory (of Nepal Mandal) were basically the same Newar people, under both Lichhavi and Malla dynasty, right? Then, how can you take those sophistications attained during Lichhavi reign out and separate them from Newar Civilization ? You cannot do this. Newars were there during Lichchavi period too and several Lichhavi-era words are still in use in Newari local language  among newars in Kathmandu, Bhaktapur and Dolakha locale.

The good point is that you agree that Mallas inherited the pre-existing knowledge, and promoted Newar Civilization trademarking the cultural assets behind their names but they did not invent the civilization by themselves. When you refer to Newar civiliation, it is the civilization evolved and flourished in Nepal Mandal (that includes all circumferencing chakras of the astapithas) throughout the history that covers Lichchavis, Mallas and Shahs as well (Shah kings attain Kumari festival, samyak mahadan etc. which are the part of Newari culture). The territory of Newar Civilization extends little far from current KTM valley (including Khopring, Dwalkhwa, Farpring, Makhopring, yambec and several other drangas of Nepal Mandal encircled by 24 pithas), but the valley is the nucleaus of this civilization.

It is true, the development of agriculture (farming practices, crop calendar, cattle grazing, manure processing, seed preservation etc.), irrigation (construction of chanels e.g. rajkulos, irrigation schedule-arrangement, conflict management etc.), civil construction (road network, sewage system, drinking water supply, etc.), urban planning (separation of lands based on productivity, landuse categorization etc.), were mostly advanced during Lichchavi period. The details of these technological advancement is not documented well but they have been succesfully traced back by scholars to much beyond the Mallas' reign, which certainly indicates Lichchavi period was having better environment for development. Based on that, historicians indicated Lichchavi era as the golden era of Nepalese Civilization. Traces of these development are found mostly in Nepal Mandala, the land populated by Newars.

The most important point to notice in these developments is that they were not influenced much by other major civilizations in the continent. Therefore I don't hesitate to distance Newar civilization from others despite being aware on the fact that there are evidences of possible influence from other Indian subcontinent civilizations. Such an influence is obvious when there is powerful invaders like Lichchavis and Mallas in our history. I will give you some examples of differences here.

(1) Agricultural techniques are quite different. For example, if you compare the case of conventional manure processing under Newar tradition, you will find a very sophisticated nytrogen recycling scheme - that is conected with saagaa - installed in every household for sustainable agriculture, which you don't have in other civilizations. Also, Newars rarely use animal powered plough, Their Kodali is much different from the digging hoe that is widely used in indian subcontinent. There are several other differences I can detail on this category.

(2) If you compare the drinking water, other civilizations mostly relied on naturally found clean water resources, but newar civilization worked on water purification and installed water reclying scheme. The stone-water spouts, located mostly below normal ground surface level, are equipped with a series of underground complex water purification facilities that are not common elsewhere in other civilizations. You mentioned - Underground water spout is based on Vastusaastra principle-origin Vedic Civilization, but you should know that Vastushastra is the philosophy of balancing right shape, size, slope, color and direction that is vital to architectural design, whereas I am talking about the chemistry of underground water spouts that is much beyond the scope of Vastushastra. Vastushastra may guide only on maintaining proper slope to make gravity driven free flow of water, where as underground water purification schemes are found to have installed pressure driven anti-gravity water flow too.

(3) If you compare the traditional baking technology that were used in brick-making or pottery, you will find minimal use of charcoal in Newar's technique compared to those who inherited the influence of other Indian subcontinent civilization. The traditional Newari baking plants use dry straw of sub-tropical pine arrayed through ventilated chambers with layered timber under ash, which is more sophisticated and more efficient as it allows easier temperature control. Similarly, Newar people have tradition of using consolidated fine clay to make high density brick, which is not that common in other civilization.

(4) If you see the housings structure, Newar civilization has 4 and half-story buildings, that consists of chheri, maatan, chwota, baingah, kahsi (notice all these words are lichchavi-era words) and all these stories have specified purposes. Kitchen is on bainga, store for precious metal, weapons and cereals must be in Maatan. Vegetable and spices are to be stored in Chwota. Firewood, water vessels etc. are to be stored at Chheri. There is rules and directions to use every corner of the building. And if you compare this things with other civilizations, you will find a lot of differences. Most indian civilization directs to locate kitchen at groundfloor or out of main building, but Newari architecture keeps it at 4th floor inside the building. Vastushastra is found generally adopted in Newari architecture too in chosing directions. But there are evidences that priorities of Newari architecture is maintaining symetry and hierarchy. So, one may argue that Vastushastra is not necessarily the strict guideline for design but could be a good reference.

These few examples are just to highlight some differences. There are many others, e.g. the dyeing techniques, metallurgy, chemicals, food processing, hydraulics, childcare, maternity care, etc. etc. One may find a few similarities. You will see a lot of similarities between Mohenjodaro and Harrappa, or Indus and Mohenjodaro etc. but they are essentially different civilizations. If you compare one to one, you may even see similarities in tibettan civilization and Indian Vedic civilizations, but that does not nullify significance of tibettan civilization in tibet.

In the end, I can sense that you like to make guesses, perhaps that inspired youto suggest me names of few books you are familiar with. Do not worry about my readings, I have zapped them already. Moreover, I do not take those books as the bible of nepalese civilization nor do I consider them an error-free or exhaustive documentations. The authors of those books have done great job in bringing information together, for which I certainly appreciate them and would consider them of high reference value; however, there is left enough space to make questions on several issues. I do not want to enter in that detail right now. To be honest, some of those authors are motivated to find similarities and draw parallel in the information they have collected from Nepal Mandal and their knowledge on other well-known civilizations because that makes them easy to get the article well-reviewed from peers, particularly when they are talking about Newar civilization, less known to outside world. However, some readers may be misguided by those parallels and end up understanding as if Newar Civilization have just adopted knowledge from others rather than finding the value of knowledge accumulated by themselves. So, I would put my eyes on differences than similarities to see anomalies clearly. I do not care if one would understand this as "creating concept of civilization".